See for more themes.

Confusing studies with Scriprure and SOP, was Ellen White inspired?

Q9: Confusing studies with "SOP & Scripture" ?

HYPOTHESIS: Why is Scripture study or SOP study confusing?

INTRODUCTION: In an earlier study we looked at how hard it is to show members in our faith that the "Shadday" is a functional description of the Holy Spirit. We also looked at how hard it would be to show members in our faith that the "Eloah" is our "heavenly Father".

Notice what SOP says:-

God cannot be compared with the things His hands have made. These are mere earthly things, suffering under the curse of God because of the sins of man. The Father cannot be described by the things of earth. The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. {FLB 39

Since we know GOD is not of material or things from earth, and is invisible to mortal sight, it becomes obvious GOD reveals his powers through earth objects so humans can understand GOD darkly. For example GOD created mankind in their image. An image is something that looks like something else. It is a simile. But similes are not the same thing, only something like it, a representation or symbol of it.

The problem is if one cannot study Scripture using Hebrew words, how can one study Scripture in English? Will our Scripture studies make sense to other Christians? Can our studies be confirmed with SOP ? Or is this all so difficult that nothing is clear, but all speculation?

What do we do with confusing Scripture studies and confusing SOP studies ?

The Author feels the real problems lie with humans reading and interpreting words, rather than Scripture and SOP comments. One thing is clear, GOD and all things pertaining to GOD in Scripture is a deep mystery and things can become complex and baffling. Such complexities I feel keep us humble and wondering. You will always find difficulties in Scripture context and translations...you cannot expect to find everything presented clearly...we see Scripture darkly too at times... not that Scripture is dark, but it is our experience and our child like faith with GOD that limits our own wisdom and experience with Scripture.

So for example, if the Godhead is not referenced as "eloah" and "shadday" as "heavenly parents" which is a simile of "earthly parents", why does SOP make the term "heavenly parent" for a "heavenly Father" without commenting upon the other? Was SOP keeping quiet for a reason, considering the history of our Church? Even Jesus speaking to His disciples said there is more I could reveal, but you cannot bear it now.

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. (KJV)

Perhaps Scripture has much more to reveal to "child like members of faith", but we cannot bear them now?

METHOD: The Author will present Scripture that is confusing and SOP that is confusing.

DISCUSSION: The presentation of Scripture and SOP with comments are below:

(1) "confusing Scripture" ..

When you speak to people who once loved GOD and Scripture, but now do not, they point out Scripture confusion as one of their reasons for leaving the faith. But we of "child like faith", are NOT expected to know everything about GOD.

So what do we do with baffling Scripture studies? Well the Author leaves them alone. Yes but others use this against us, saying our studies are mere speculation... Well that is a problem...when we have faith in GOD, faith is by definition things we see that are altogether NOT known; and so our "child like faith" grows in experience with GOD, but never knowing all things because we "see darkly"..

It is more exciting to a child to find presents wrapped and hidden in Scripture, then to find everything revealed and all at once understood. A seedling grows with roots in the dark not knowing where all the nutrients are, and only as the roots explores the things of GOD, does the tree increase in joy.

If experience and wisdom was obtained all at once, experience would not be experienced, and that is why you can give readers advice, but not experience.

So here is my experience with Scripture and SOP, my testimonies if you will, but they are not your experiences...you must gain wisdom and experience yourself by growing in the relationship with GOD.

De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The Hebrew word here for "Strong drink" is indeed alcoholic strong drink. It's a strange baffling context. What does the context mean ? I really don't know.

So how does Scripture study say to overcome difficulties in "child like faith" in themes like this ?

See how Scriptures says Scripture should be studied.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

This is NOT saying it's OK to read a passage here and a passage there...the verse is saying to measure something by the little marks and bigger marks on the ruler we are measuring by... its a poetry simile picture of how a carpenter measures... he reads off the big marks (3 metres) and the smaller marks ( 3 metres 2 cms) and finally the smaller marks, (3.028 metres long) and cuts a piece of timber to that measurement.

So we read all of Scripture, all the big and little themes around the topic under study before we make an overall conclusion... so this verse by itself is confusing, but in the overall presentation of Scripture about "strong drink" the theme is not confusing, we should not drink alcoholic drinks.

(2) "confusing SOP" ..

They are not directed by the wisdom of Christ, through the impartation of His Holy Spirit. Then I ask you, How can we regard these men as faultless in judgment? They may be in responsible positions, but they are living separated from Christ. They have not the mind of Christ, and do not learn daily of Him. Yet in some cases their judgment is trusted, and their counsel is regarded as the wisdom of God. {TM 215.1}

Notice "wisdom" is a "flow of things from the Family of GOD" and yet the Holy Spirit personifies Jesus character to us humans.

You will be called apostates, for publishing that which causes distraction, but if you have the attractiveness of Christ, if you are balanced in all you do by the wisdom of Christ, your own heart imbued with the Spirit of Christ, you will accomplish a good work for Christ. {1888 494.2}

Here SOP writes a simile parallel, the "wisdom of Christ" is a simile of the "Holy Spirit of Christ"

So if we wish to identify wisdom within the Godhead, wisdom can be the Father, wisdom can be the Son, and wisdom can be the Holy Spirit. But we also find wisdom is carried by the agency of the Holy Spirit to us humans. This means the Holy Spirit can carry to us the Father's flow of wisdom or the Son's flow of wisdom, assuming this theory of faith so far is OK.

Using the science of salvation our theories of faith are explored darkly...we can never be expected to know everything about everything...we shall be exploring the science of salvation for eternity.

So one of my faviourite Scripture saying is this one:-

Ps 131:1 ... neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

However many of us use the baffling nature of Scripture, SOP and GOD as an excuse to remain drinking milk all the days of our lives...saying "brother this stuff is too deep for me"...

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Christians are supposed to grow...and become weaned from milk unto solid foods of Jesus...

OK so here is another confusing statement by SOP:-

The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. This was no robbery of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way," He declares, "before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depths" (Proverbs 8:22-27). {LHU 16.4}

So Jesus and the Father both worked together in Creation of our Earth, yet SOP never directly says our heavenly Father is our Creator, only that Jesus is.

He (Jesus) had united with the Father in the creation of man,.... {LHU 24.6}

Our Creator is Jesus Christ. {CD 43.3}

Our Creator is Jesus Christ. -- U. T., May 19, 1897. {HL 20.2}

Never directly does SOP say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, together created this creation on earth, only ever directly that Jesus is our Creator. Why is that ? The Author doesn't know.

Why does SOP use this passage which is a poetry picture of "wisdom" symbolically presented as a Being (simile of a woman) as well as a power flow of wise choices, coming forth from GOD? The whole eight chapters of Proverbs is more likely a passage about the Holy Spirit, but SOP uses this specific passage to say Jesus' wisdom was called forth with the Father during Creation, before the works of old?

What was this "wisdom" of Christ, that was called forth and established before Creation of earth started ? Perhaps it was the solution to missing GOD's power, because Lucifer was found missing God's power, and thus began sinning. So if GOD wanted to create some special race in His image, as jury members of the Great Controversy, who never knew about GOD and Lucifer's sinning. GOD wanted to make a fair trial of court, so the "saved humans" are "jury members" to witness that Lucifer is bad and that GOD is good.

This establishment also requires the setting up of "special wisdom" , in case this innocent special race of jury members should fall into sinning because of Lucifer's trickery. So Jesus was calling forth special wisdom, described in "ceremonial laws" which describe the way humans now fallen from grace, can be restored back to GOD, because of His provision of grace, under these "ceremonial laws".

So we find in Scripture these "ceremonial laws" are embedded in similes of persons, typologies of events and symbols of powers, all at the same time.

For example Joshua was a "simile person" of Jesus, Moses was a "simile typology" of Jesus, and Melchizedek a "simile power" of Jesus.

We also find Jesus is a simile of His Father's light, a witness to His Father, and because Jesus is responding to another persons love (His Father) that means Jesus is "expressing femaleness-love" or as SOP defines this term "fellowship-love".

Pr 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life

Here Jesus is a symbol of light, a symbol of all the torah teachings are light, the words of Jesus demonstrated in person to us, by His prophets.

Ps 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Here the word is a simile of Jesus, a simile of the lamp and a simile of the light. Thus Jesus is a simile of His Father.

Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

Here Jesus is a simile of the "mother" because Jesus is a simile of the light of His Father. And what is a "mother" in Hebrew? the "strong glue in the home", the one that binds us together... We often think of GOD as gender something, but this is incorrect...the Father is not gender male for example...there is no Scripture evidence for this...we see things darkly...but we have assumed pictures of this... We also assume Jesus is gender male, yet here Jesus is typified as a "mother" and in all the 8 chapters of wisdom, we have the poetry language of wisdom as a woman or mother.

So in this example, SOP and Scripture are saying Jesus is a simile of the Holy Spirit as well.

For another example of poetry having dual applications with Jesus and the Holy Spirit,

  • see this example here.

    Confused? Do not the Jews see "Elohiym" as a "single flow of heavenly power" ?

    Do we not believe in Scripture there is one "GOD" , whatever that term means ?

    However we also find looking at the individual members of the Godhead, pictures where each member has personality that is unique as the personalities of love is unique.

    And so if we wish to look at these similes further, they also show that the Holy Spirit is expressing femaleness-love, as a simile of the woman and as a simile of a mother. We do not see these things revealed directly because "hebrew" says maleness-love takes precedence over femaleness-love in a family of love.

    The word "hebrew" means to "cross over". The meaning of "hebrew" is not a culture of people living today...although could have been.. The word "hebrew" can be seen by others as "spiritual hebrew"; is when we as humans cross over from our dysfunctional world to live in GOD's functional world.

    Thus "hebrew" is the language of heaven, it can be found in a "remnant", but collectively "hebrew" is not a worldly culture.

    You will find other readers have found dozens of examples of SOP with Scripture confusion. The White Estate tries to deal with many of these.

    The method of using SOP to validate Scriptural Hebrew is pioneering research, we will all make mistakes if we investigate SOP in this way...especially when we consider SOP deals with "truth" embedded in cloudy presentations of Scripture caused by poor translations. just as easily we make mistakes in studying Scripture in Hebrew, or some other translated language..

    So when reading SOP, we should ask what does the "lesser light" say about the "greater light" ?, or in other words, think of SOP as a sort of Hebrew to English translator. But beware when SOP quotes Scripture, the words may not be translated all that well. Read all the SOP material to see how the theme is used. If we practice doing this kind of study, all our confusion will go away and we will find SOP does explain our Hebrew Scriptures in English very well.

    God bless the science of salvation, as we study Scripture and SOP in this renewed way, and with renewed joy!!! Shalom

    On the next webpage, we consider SOP and a variety of themes briefly.

    SOP & confusion theme

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