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Abraham talks to Divine Lord; the two YHWH of heaven

(1) Ge 15:2 � And Abram said , Lord (Adonay) GOD , what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless , and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus ?

And Abram said , LORD (Adonay) GOD , what..

Abraham is in a vision, and addresses YHWH as Adonay...

(2) Ge 15:8 And he said , Lord (Adonay) GOD , whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it ?

And he said , LORD (Adonay) GOD , where..

Abraham in vision speaks to YHWH as Adonay...

(3) Ge 18:3 And said , My Lord (Adonay) , if now I have found favour in thy sight , pass not away , I pray thee, from thy servant :

.. And said , My LORD (Adonay) , if now I...

Notice the fuller context:-

  • Ge 18:1 � And the LORD (YHWH) appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
  • 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
  • 3 And said, My LORD (Adonay), if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

    Abraham see three men, and addresses one as Adonay, who is YHWH... the other two men we learn later walking to Sodom as met by Lot, and are two angels... The third man is YHWH, addressed as Adonay.

    Notice this verse:-

  • Ge 19:24 � Then the LORD (YHWH) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (YHWH) out of heaven;

    There are two YHWH's here, one walking on earth, the other YHWH in heaven.

    This suggests the Father YHWH is in heaven, while Jesus YHWH is on earth, and is the Adonay, Abraham was talking to.

    Some religions of faith, say these YHWH references are only to the Father, so how does the Father speak face to face to Abraham, and not destroy Abraham?

  • Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    So how does three men appear to Abraham, while not destroying them ?

    In a chaper earlier, we have another vision of Abraham ..

  • Ge 17:1 � And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (YHWH) appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God ( SHADDAY - Holy Spirit El- Strong Authority); walk before me, and be thou perfect.
  • 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
  • 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God (Elohiym - the Family of GOD) talked with him, saying,

    Here we see Abraham speaking to GOD via the Shadday, the medium of the Holy Spirit, allows GOD to speak to Abraham face to face, while not killing him..

    There are some religions of faith, do not even recognize a third co-eternal Being, the Shadday or Holy Spirit.

    So if the Father does everything, how does the Father show Himself to man without destroying Him, and uphold the universes, and at the same time rescue sinners? Such a notion violates the meaning of Elohiym, to begin with....

    Sure the word Elohiym is a single Being "whose power flows", but this Being is a "high ranked Authority" who rules over a family.

    For example here we see Elohiym:-

  • can be used for Abraham, His power flow over his family,
  • Ge 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince (Elohiym) among us....
  • or Aaron and Moses, and the power flow of YHWH over his inner family
  • Ex 7:1 � And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (Elohiym) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet

    These examples show Elohiym, also references a family of Beings, in which a single source of power flows.

    In other words, Elohiym is a 'system of power over a family of Strong Authorities'.. and this is what all pagan religions had (Egypt, Rome, Greece and Persia) for their concept of Elohiym.

    (4) Ge 18:27 And Abraham answered and said , Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord (Adonay) , which am but dust and ashes :

    .. I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD (Adonay) , which ..

    Abraham is speaking to YHWH as Adonay...so we are left with the hypothesis, is Adonay a reference to Jesus, who is also one of the YHWH (He exists) members of the Godhead? We will investigate the rest of the verses looking for links between 'Adown' and 'Adonay'.

    (5) Ge 18:30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord (Adonay) be angry , and I will speak : Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said , I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

    .. Oh let not the LORD (Adonay) be angry ,

    (6) Ge 18:31 And he said , Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord (Adonay) : Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said , I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

    .. to speak unto the LORD (Adonay) : Peradventure..

    (7) Ge 18:32 And he said , Oh let not the Lord (Adonay) be angry , and I will speak yet but this once : Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said , I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

    .. Oh let not the Lord (Adonay) be angry ,..

    Abraham talks to YHWH as Adonay, seeking mercy for his nephew Lot living in Sodom..

    (8) Ge 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said , Lord (Adonay) , wilt thou slay also a righteous nation ?

    .. and he said , LORD (Adonay) , wilt thou

    (9) Ex 4:10 � And Moses said unto the LORD , O my Lord (Adonay) , I am not eloquent , neither heretofore , nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant : but I am slow of speech , and of a slow tongue .

    .. And Moses said unto the LORD , O my LORD (Adonay) , I am not...

    (10) Ex 4:13 And he said , O my Lord (Adonay) , send , I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send .

    .. O my LORD (Adonay) , send ..

    Moses sees YHWH, and addresses Him as Adonay..

    Adonay theme

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